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Changes?

Posted by haarp 
Changes?
2012-09-22 14:38:59
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Changes!

With Huntress out of the picture, Funbocks is now responsible for around 95% of the playerbase. That comes with obligations to provide good service.
Over on the MWLL forums people express their desire for official maps and to get rid of most custom maps. Well, okay.

Proposed changes for Alpha:
- Reduce map rotation to official maps (official maps only)
- Add a few good customs maps? [y/n]

Proposed changes for Beta:
- Remove official maps from rotation (custom maps only)? [y/n]
- Disable puretech? [y/n]

Gimme your thoughts. And tell others to do the same.



If the radiance of a thousand suns
were to burst, at once, into the sky
It would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-22 14:39 by haarp.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-22 14:43:23
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Alpha: I don't have intricate knowledge of all maps, but running too few maps isn't good either, so I definitely would say yes to run officials plus the well liked community maps.

Beta: Maybe not all official maps but the favs? Plus community maps. I like puretech.



-I would if I could, but I can't so I won't.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 09:02:17
There are good custom maps, that can be run on Alpha.

May be it would be reasonable to have "stable build" alpha server with official maps those custom maps, that are fun to play and experimental "Beta" server with new untested custom maps (so that map creator could get at least some feedback).
I still like the TC/TSA mix idea. May be 2 TC + 1 TSA map.

Could you please state the map list you are using on Funbocks? There are several maps I really want removed, but I am not sure I remember all of them.

By the way, official maps like Sandblasted, Palisades, Clearcut and Extremity should be removed or heavily restricted. Some of them been here for way too long, some are not fun to play at all and Extremity is simply too good at killing the population (I love it, but most people do not).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-23 09:04 by ELH_Vivicector.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 14:49:06
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ELH_Vivicector
There are good custom maps, that can be run on Alpha.

May be it would be reasonable to have "stable build" alpha server with official maps those custom maps, that are fun to play and experimental "Beta" server with new untested custom maps (so that map creator could get at least some feedback).
I still like the TC/TSA mix idea. May be 2 TC + 1 TSA map.

Could you please state the map list you are using on Funbocks? There are several maps I really want removed, but I am not sure I remember all of them.

By the way, official maps like Sandblasted, Palisades, Clearcut and Extremity should be removed or heavily restricted. Some of them been here for way too long, some are not fun to play at all and Extremity is simply too good at killing the population (I love it, but most people do not).

Pretty much this.




Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 15:34:57
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I'm ok with whatever, as long as Puretech stays.



Human + CJW = Spit drooling retard

[giant.gfycat.com]
[oi60.tinypic.com]
Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 15:57:52
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Alpha: y / y + puretech
Beta: y / y
Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 16:00:57
Would prefer puretech removed. It is fun, but still not balanced enough. Imagine some frustration for new players.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 16:22:05
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ELH_Vivicector
Would prefer puretech removed. It is fun, but still not balanced enough. Imagine some frustration for new players.

I agree with this as well, I'm really not feeling it just yet.




Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 16:53:41
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Bill
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ELH_Vivicector
Would prefer puretech removed. It is fun, but still not balanced enough. Imagine some frustration for new players.

I agree with this as well, I'm really not feeling it just yet.

I understand, but I think we need at least one server to run it to provide data on *how* it's not balanced.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-23 17:58:07
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I would have thought that's been gathered in the 3 months they've been running it eye rolling smiley




Re: Changes?
2012-09-24 09:47:47
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It's not balanced when Clan tries to snipe LGauss fapnirs. Otherwise it down to the map. If you take or find a way to negate IS Long-range advantage and use clan mobility, I can totally see Clan wining.



Human + CJW = Spit drooling retard

[giant.gfycat.com]
[oi60.tinypic.com]
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 08:54:32
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Alpha now running official, Beta all maps. Puretech has also been disabled.

If people avoid Beta altogether, I'll force custom maps upon Alpha again.



If the radiance of a thousand suns
were to burst, at once, into the sky
It would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 08:57:51
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haarp
If people avoid Beta altogether, I'll force custom maps upon Alpha again.

Why? That seems rather counterproductive winking smiley.


I like the changes, though I hope I don't get to see too much TSA ;P
ELH_MrGray
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 10:19:47
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ELH_Vivicector
May be it would be reasonable to have "stable build" alpha server with official maps those custom maps, that are fun to play and experimental "Beta" server with new untested custom maps (so that map creator could get at least some feedback).

I think it is wrong direction, puretech depends heavily from maps and demands careful selection. And i say NAY about disabling puretech, because of it we gonna have very nice balance changes in upcoming patch and it is still WIP.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 12:07:26
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I'm still considering puretech. It seems the ratio between those who like and and those who hate it is 50/50. If anyone has a good argument to put it back in, I might.

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Spooky
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haarp
If people avoid Beta altogether, I'll force custom maps upon Alpha again.
Why? That seems rather counterproductive winking smiley.
I want people to play custom maps. I don't want to force everyone to play them, but if they ignore them completely I will make them. There are a ton of mappers and good custom map out there, and to have them ignored in favor of de_dust and de_dust2 does not do them justice.



If the radiance of a thousand suns
were to burst, at once, into the sky
It would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 13:38:25
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haarp
I want people to play custom maps. I don't want to force everyone to play them, but if they ignore them completely I will make them. There are a ton of mappers and good custom map out there, and to have them ignored in favor of de_dust and de_dust2 does not do them justice.

But the current player base is just not suitable for that. The mappers need feedback of course. But I don't see the point of making (spamming really, recently...) custom maps in the first place, if there are not nearly enough people playing the game currently, in order to properly test and enjoy them.

I hope Beta does not currently use the exact same rotation with the same custom maps as before. There are a lot of absolutely horrible custom maps out there. TC_SilentHill especially -_- .
Blhurr
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 14:51:02
I understand the need to have a server that has official quality only maps. Although I would make the argument that the visual quality of those maps makes them performance killers for quite a few players. So there is a trade off.

I have no idea how one evaluates which custom maps to include on a server rotation. I know I'm not nearly as excited about creating new maps with the new set up. No doubt some people are glad about that lol. Maybe it's time for me to hang up my hat. I have no idea how I'm going to get the necessary feedback to improve my maps when a map has a 1/40 chance of being tested every 40 hours. (there are roughly that many custom maps).

I know people are sick to death of map polls but maybe a harsher poll asking the question, what maps will you absolutely not play? Would be the proper approach and really just leave the best 10 on rotation with a trial period for new maps of 2 weeks or so. As a mapmaker I would stand by the popular vote and it would drive me to really make sure I'm releasing a product that is the absolute best product I can release knowing that I may really only get one shot to impress the playerbase.

Last word is that based on reading the forums it seems to me that a good many official maps have poor reputations among players. Huntress was essentially 75% official and its popularity was dropping significantly before it went down.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 18:36:42
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Spooky
I hope Beta does not currently use the exact same rotation with the same custom maps as before. There are a lot of absolutely horrible custom maps out there. TC_SilentHill especially -_- .
It does, but Silent Hill has been removed. It was only added it as a part of a suggestion and removed again after I randomly stumbled upon some feedback. People never willing give me feedback, but they will complain about map rotations the first chance they get...

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Blhurr
I have no idea how one evaluates which custom maps to include on a server rotation.
It's a bit time-consuming, really.
- Download map
- Copy it to server location so clients can download later
- Figure out whether mirror on mwllmaps.com exists, is same version (I'm looking at YOU, mappers who never update their version number!) and activate mirror for load-balancing (we handle 2/3 of map uploads ourselves and redirect 1/3 to mwllmaps.com)
- Extract map to master folder
- Remove old version from master folder if it exists
- Add it to levelrotation.xml with proper name, link and settings
- Wait for server to sync master to its personal map folder during restart (necessary because the server will complain about "modified files" and shut down whenever you change any maps while it's running)

And only then is the map on the server and evaluation can start. Which usually involves me watching the server console for complaints. Which is not very effective.

Putting them on Funbocks is the only means I have of testing new maps, but before that can happen, I need to know if the map might be worth it in the first place. While I occasionally browse the community created content forum, it seldom gives me enough information. Is the map considered stable enough for gameplay? Is it any good? Trying all maps under the sun would be extremely time-consuming. I also don't want to take risks due to bad experiences in the past, e.g. TC_Area88 which was very early in development, and others.

An independent map review board would be very welcome. Alas, MWLL has far too few people for that.

Deciding which maps to run and which to punt is also highly subjective and difficult, especially if your name isn't Zathrus and you don't play 4 hours a day. I wish I had someone else to handle that, but there's nobody willing and capable.



If the radiance of a thousand suns
were to burst, at once, into the sky
It would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-25 18:39 by haarp.
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 19:06:30
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I'll make sure to come here first about custom map feedback in the future ;P (and provide the same feedback in the appropriate thread on the MWLL forum, if existent). Once my ISP has given me a public IP that is..... this process has been going on for over month now -_-
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 19:14:33
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1 month o.O

Just say that you are contemplating another ISP, one that will provide internet to you faster. that will probably kick things up a gear or too. The problem about public IP is that the world has used up all the possible IPv4 - all 4294967296 (2^32) addresses. An IPv6 is in development, but I'm not sure when will it be deployed.



Human + CJW = Spit drooling retard

[giant.gfycat.com]
[oi60.tinypic.com]
Re: Changes?
2012-09-25 19:15:46
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Oh, I know. Haven't really had time to press them on the matter recently, but I'll probably do it this week.